Oof. This was difficult to read (an era when we have less rights than our mothers) and watch (that housewife tik tok was frightening!) I definitely have noticed that I am letting more messes go in my house in the last several months. I have been doing some personal work on unhitching my identity from having a clean house so I guess I've done some quiet quitting as a result. One thing I was thinking about this morning was how my husband never seems compelled to "pick up after me" in the same way I do about his messes. It really caught me off guard to realize how normal it is for me to pick up after him and how that is not something he would ever put up with for very long. It always surprises me when I see my conditioned responses in this way.
Hi Jackie, I think most women in cis heterosexual relationships are the “noticers”. I know I am at home and it baffles me how my husband doesn’t “see” mess or smell the garbage that needs to be taken out, for that matter!
Thank you Amanda for another brilliant essay. Unequal labour at home has been an ongoing battle in our home and I know it is my husband unlearning a lot of the behaviour.
I’m not sure about the solution, I guess the partner has to actually want to help, and want to change.
Baffles me too. So much to unravel here. I think a lot of married cis hetero women are quietly waging these battles at home. The question is how we make it more of a collective struggle and like you say bring partners into that struggle.
Don't you think we've been conditioned to notice mess though whereas men often aren't? I do think they don't actually see the mess the same way we do - but I tend to think the mess doesn't mean anything to them not that they literally can't see it. Whereas mess and smells mean something to us - basically they mean we need to clean or else * insert judgment *. I guess when I hear "he doesn't see it" it makes me roll my eyes because I'm like he has eyes! But yes he doesn't notice it/isn't bothered by it, I understand that as being about gender and socialization. I don't think you're taking me to task, I'm just thinking about hearing my friends say "he doesn't see it!" and I kinda think they literally think he can't see it somehow. And it can make them throw their hands up like "what can I do? He doesn't see the mess." And men can say they don't see it and that can be the end of the domestic responsibility conversation. So basically that phrasing irks me 😊
I think that’s it. We’re conditioned to see it. And we have been conditioned to link the appearance of our homes to our identity, and men don’t and if they don’t care about it, if it doesn’t cause them discomfort or shame then they don’t see it... I’m not speaking literal terms like their eyes blur out mess.
I think it was the conversation between Anne Helen and Doreen Shafrir where Anne points out the fact that unless men, or people in general, are forced to, then they won’t do. As in, if we stop doing it, or if they lived alone or were a single dad, he would have to clean up after himself.
That’s how I understand the “noticer” discourse too. That one partner (usually woman) is conditioned to notice mess, whereas the other is not. But that should be an opening for the non noticer to LEARN skills generally only expected of women in the home, not an opportunity for him/his partner to throw up their hands and write it off as some essential aspect of the spouse. I agree that is super harmful and only further essentializes women as natural cleaners/caretakers. Which they are not. It’s learned. But I also hear that kind of dismissive logic all the time, irks me to no end.
Yes to Jade’s point about the noticing— this is from Mangino’s book. Tomorrow in the weekend thread I’ll share a great conversation she had with Anne Helen Petersen. This subject came up. You’re so right that women are conditioned to hitch their identities to cleanliness!
Yes! That’s where I heard it. And I thought yes one of the things that infuriates me is that he doesn’t notice things. And I’m by no means a clean freak. But mess can be uneasy to sit with especially if you work from home.
I did have a very productive discussion with my husband as he was essentially wanting me to prioritise our relationship a bit more, and I listed things like housework he could do to help lighten my load both physical and mental, and I truly don’t think he had connected those dots before.
Yes, so much to say in terms of male partners' expectations of intimacy vs women’s physical and emotional exhaustion and need for support and help in and outside the home.
Thank you for this interesting and thought provoking concept. I heard about the 'quiet quitting' movement on BBC radio the other day just before your newsletter arrived, but hadn't thought of the idea in relation to women's domestic labour. Fascinating discussion, thanks : )
Oof. This was difficult to read (an era when we have less rights than our mothers) and watch (that housewife tik tok was frightening!) I definitely have noticed that I am letting more messes go in my house in the last several months. I have been doing some personal work on unhitching my identity from having a clean house so I guess I've done some quiet quitting as a result. One thing I was thinking about this morning was how my husband never seems compelled to "pick up after me" in the same way I do about his messes. It really caught me off guard to realize how normal it is for me to pick up after him and how that is not something he would ever put up with for very long. It always surprises me when I see my conditioned responses in this way.
Also wish we had striked again on the 26th!
Hi Jackie, I think most women in cis heterosexual relationships are the “noticers”. I know I am at home and it baffles me how my husband doesn’t “see” mess or smell the garbage that needs to be taken out, for that matter!
Thank you Amanda for another brilliant essay. Unequal labour at home has been an ongoing battle in our home and I know it is my husband unlearning a lot of the behaviour.
I’m not sure about the solution, I guess the partner has to actually want to help, and want to change.
Baffles me too. So much to unravel here. I think a lot of married cis hetero women are quietly waging these battles at home. The question is how we make it more of a collective struggle and like you say bring partners into that struggle.
Don't you think we've been conditioned to notice mess though whereas men often aren't? I do think they don't actually see the mess the same way we do - but I tend to think the mess doesn't mean anything to them not that they literally can't see it. Whereas mess and smells mean something to us - basically they mean we need to clean or else * insert judgment *. I guess when I hear "he doesn't see it" it makes me roll my eyes because I'm like he has eyes! But yes he doesn't notice it/isn't bothered by it, I understand that as being about gender and socialization. I don't think you're taking me to task, I'm just thinking about hearing my friends say "he doesn't see it!" and I kinda think they literally think he can't see it somehow. And it can make them throw their hands up like "what can I do? He doesn't see the mess." And men can say they don't see it and that can be the end of the domestic responsibility conversation. So basically that phrasing irks me 😊
I think that’s it. We’re conditioned to see it. And we have been conditioned to link the appearance of our homes to our identity, and men don’t and if they don’t care about it, if it doesn’t cause them discomfort or shame then they don’t see it... I’m not speaking literal terms like their eyes blur out mess.
I think it was the conversation between Anne Helen and Doreen Shafrir where Anne points out the fact that unless men, or people in general, are forced to, then they won’t do. As in, if we stop doing it, or if they lived alone or were a single dad, he would have to clean up after himself.
That’s how I understand the “noticer” discourse too. That one partner (usually woman) is conditioned to notice mess, whereas the other is not. But that should be an opening for the non noticer to LEARN skills generally only expected of women in the home, not an opportunity for him/his partner to throw up their hands and write it off as some essential aspect of the spouse. I agree that is super harmful and only further essentializes women as natural cleaners/caretakers. Which they are not. It’s learned. But I also hear that kind of dismissive logic all the time, irks me to no end.
Yes to Jade’s point about the noticing— this is from Mangino’s book. Tomorrow in the weekend thread I’ll share a great conversation she had with Anne Helen Petersen. This subject came up. You’re so right that women are conditioned to hitch their identities to cleanliness!
Yes! That’s where I heard it. And I thought yes one of the things that infuriates me is that he doesn’t notice things. And I’m by no means a clean freak. But mess can be uneasy to sit with especially if you work from home.
I did have a very productive discussion with my husband as he was essentially wanting me to prioritise our relationship a bit more, and I listed things like housework he could do to help lighten my load both physical and mental, and I truly don’t think he had connected those dots before.
Yes, so much to say in terms of male partners' expectations of intimacy vs women’s physical and emotional exhaustion and need for support and help in and outside the home.
Thank you for this interesting and thought provoking concept. I heard about the 'quiet quitting' movement on BBC radio the other day just before your newsletter arrived, but hadn't thought of the idea in relation to women's domestic labour. Fascinating discussion, thanks : )
Thanks for reading Kate!
I was inspired by this thread and wrote a piece titled “deep thoughts on modern wifehood - how can we squeeze in romance when our emails and dishes are piling up?” I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts? https://deardilate.substack.com/p/deep-thoughts-on-modern-wifehood?r=18ibnt&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
You had me at the Didion in the kitchen pic
It’s a great image isn’t it?
SO great