Wonderful post! I have four children myself (grown-up by now) and had a very successful career as a scientific researcher. I loved having children, but it wasn’t always a picnic (I am French by the way and it’s much easier here than in the US). It sounds perfectly reasonable to me to weight options before deciding on having children and I would never say that choosing not to have children is a bad decision. Basically, it is a decision that everyone should be free to make without social pressure. And the best way to do it is to know what women with children go through, in terms of emotion, self-identity and professional ambition.
“we should continue asking ourselves, especially if we are writers or artists, whether our work is expanding the archive of motherhood and parenting, or whether we are simply replaying old tropes and archetypes to convince ourselves we are good.” Mic drop!
You're reading my thoughts right now. I've been thinking about maternal dread as I'm writing a piece, in part, of the work of making magic- how this season once again asks so much of Mothers. I think it was you who said or wrote once too about how it's perfectly reasonable to like a job while simultaneously disliking the conditions of that job. Motherhood to a T for many of us. Adjacent to this topic of consenting to Motherhood, is also consent to monogamy- another thing I don't believe anyone consciously chooses- for how can you consent to a thing that no one has explained the origins story of or the consequences of?
I have known a few folks who have very consciously chosen monogamy - after exploring consensual non-monogamous relationships/polyamorous relationships, and deciding that it wasn't their cuppa tea.
I'm not sure the point of this comment? In a culture where monogamy and marriage are upheld via law, scripture, pop culture etc. is it really surprising that it's so challenging to live outside the dominant script that's been spoon fed us since birth? Your comment also feeds into this myth about consensual non-monogamy that when it doesn't work or people give it up, it's b/c IT i.e. CNM/Poly is flawed/bankrupt, but when marriages fail (which they do all fucking time) no one ever blames monogamy.
I meant to agree with you that it's very rare for monogamy to be an intentional choice, and offering an "exception to prove the rule" sort of thing.
I resist the idea that I'm "feeding the myth" that people give up on CNM because CNM is inherently flawed, though: I explicitly said that these consciously monogamous people find that non-monogamy just isn't a good fit for them, for whatever reason. It doesn't strictly mean that they're blaming CNM, just that they explored an alternative philosophy and found that it wasn't right for them. There are always more possibilities for why that is than the ones you find in the mythology.
To me that's a strange example to give b/c since, as you point out you're listing secondhand examples of people who are not you, and thus you don't and can't say for sure why they came to their decisions, which thus, doesn't negate my earlier point. So you can't actually assert that blaming non-monogamy as flawed wasn't part of their thinking even they are so-called "conscious." Most biases for people around sex and intimacy in dominant north american culture are pretty buried/unconscious.
So, again, I was trying to agree with you from the beginning, never trying to negate your point. And the reason that I cite secondhand examples is because those are the stories that real people in my CNM+ community have shared with me, and while they could have been leaving stuff out, I do have good reason to believe that they were genuinely reflecting on parts of their journey in those conversations.
I'm not sure what you want out of continuing this thread further. Monogamy is a deeply ingrained norm. Non-monogamy is an exception, and even further exception is the incredibly rare practitioner of monogamy by _choice_ because they didn't like the alternatives after meaningfully exploring them. If you want to deny that people have found that CNM isn't a good fit for them for reasons beyond "CNM is flawed", I'm not going to argue that any further. I have seen the harms perpetrated by treating CNM exploration as a one-way street and, for myself, am not interested in perpetuating them.
“What do women dread after all?” and that last paragraph. 🙌🏽 That is it. I dread being told this is all I am allowed to be and I should love every aspect of it. Just as I would dread being told that any other identity or role in my life is all I am.
"we should continue asking ourselves, especially if we are writers or artists, whether our work is expanding the archive of motherhood and parenting". Yes. The work of advancing the conversation necessitates bigger visions of the landscape told through stories that reveal the beautiful multi-dimensions of motherhood and its undeniable interconnectedness to the wider social world. As I read your work, especially your book, I am regularly struck by your courage to be so vulnerable in telling these exact stories. I hope you reflect on the words of your critics as evidence you're doing it right.
Slammin' piece! I'll be thinking about this for a while: "But it does mean that we should continue asking ourselves, especially if we are writers or artists, whether our work is expanding the archive of motherhood and parenting, or whether we are simply replaying old tropes and archetypes to convince ourselves we are good."
Wonderful post! I have four children myself (grown-up by now) and had a very successful career as a scientific researcher. I loved having children, but it wasn’t always a picnic (I am French by the way and it’s much easier here than in the US). It sounds perfectly reasonable to me to weight options before deciding on having children and I would never say that choosing not to have children is a bad decision. Basically, it is a decision that everyone should be free to make without social pressure. And the best way to do it is to know what women with children go through, in terms of emotion, self-identity and professional ambition.
Exactly!
“we should continue asking ourselves, especially if we are writers or artists, whether our work is expanding the archive of motherhood and parenting, or whether we are simply replaying old tropes and archetypes to convince ourselves we are good.” Mic drop!
You're reading my thoughts right now. I've been thinking about maternal dread as I'm writing a piece, in part, of the work of making magic- how this season once again asks so much of Mothers. I think it was you who said or wrote once too about how it's perfectly reasonable to like a job while simultaneously disliking the conditions of that job. Motherhood to a T for many of us. Adjacent to this topic of consenting to Motherhood, is also consent to monogamy- another thing I don't believe anyone consciously chooses- for how can you consent to a thing that no one has explained the origins story of or the consequences of?
So true— and yes I always say that! Of course the issue is we naturalize motherhood as proof of one’s femininity rather than as labor 🫠
I have known a few folks who have very consciously chosen monogamy - after exploring consensual non-monogamous relationships/polyamorous relationships, and deciding that it wasn't their cuppa tea.
I'm not sure the point of this comment? In a culture where monogamy and marriage are upheld via law, scripture, pop culture etc. is it really surprising that it's so challenging to live outside the dominant script that's been spoon fed us since birth? Your comment also feeds into this myth about consensual non-monogamy that when it doesn't work or people give it up, it's b/c IT i.e. CNM/Poly is flawed/bankrupt, but when marriages fail (which they do all fucking time) no one ever blames monogamy.
I meant to agree with you that it's very rare for monogamy to be an intentional choice, and offering an "exception to prove the rule" sort of thing.
I resist the idea that I'm "feeding the myth" that people give up on CNM because CNM is inherently flawed, though: I explicitly said that these consciously monogamous people find that non-monogamy just isn't a good fit for them, for whatever reason. It doesn't strictly mean that they're blaming CNM, just that they explored an alternative philosophy and found that it wasn't right for them. There are always more possibilities for why that is than the ones you find in the mythology.
To me that's a strange example to give b/c since, as you point out you're listing secondhand examples of people who are not you, and thus you don't and can't say for sure why they came to their decisions, which thus, doesn't negate my earlier point. So you can't actually assert that blaming non-monogamy as flawed wasn't part of their thinking even they are so-called "conscious." Most biases for people around sex and intimacy in dominant north american culture are pretty buried/unconscious.
So, again, I was trying to agree with you from the beginning, never trying to negate your point. And the reason that I cite secondhand examples is because those are the stories that real people in my CNM+ community have shared with me, and while they could have been leaving stuff out, I do have good reason to believe that they were genuinely reflecting on parts of their journey in those conversations.
I'm not sure what you want out of continuing this thread further. Monogamy is a deeply ingrained norm. Non-monogamy is an exception, and even further exception is the incredibly rare practitioner of monogamy by _choice_ because they didn't like the alternatives after meaningfully exploring them. If you want to deny that people have found that CNM isn't a good fit for them for reasons beyond "CNM is flawed", I'm not going to argue that any further. I have seen the harms perpetrated by treating CNM exploration as a one-way street and, for myself, am not interested in perpetuating them.
thanks for the clarification. That context does help.
“What do women dread after all?” and that last paragraph. 🙌🏽 That is it. I dread being told this is all I am allowed to be and I should love every aspect of it. Just as I would dread being told that any other identity or role in my life is all I am.
Right!
"we should continue asking ourselves, especially if we are writers or artists, whether our work is expanding the archive of motherhood and parenting". Yes. The work of advancing the conversation necessitates bigger visions of the landscape told through stories that reveal the beautiful multi-dimensions of motherhood and its undeniable interconnectedness to the wider social world. As I read your work, especially your book, I am regularly struck by your courage to be so vulnerable in telling these exact stories. I hope you reflect on the words of your critics as evidence you're doing it right.
Hell yes, Katie!
Slammin' piece! I'll be thinking about this for a while: "But it does mean that we should continue asking ourselves, especially if we are writers or artists, whether our work is expanding the archive of motherhood and parenting, or whether we are simply replaying old tropes and archetypes to convince ourselves we are good."
And clearly I've been thinking about that pod episode for a while!